Talk:Spartiate
Broken citation: named reference "Bret2" is undefined and renders as a visible Cite error
The Characteristics section (opening paragraph, first footnote) and the Training subsection (footnotes on "Contrary to popular belief, there were no records for weaponry or formation drill trainings in the agoge" and on "Wrestling was taught…") all invoke a named reference Bret2 that is never defined in the article. The references list therefore displays the literal error text:
- Cite error: The named reference Bret2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
This is a real rendering defect visible to every reader, not a stylistic quibble. The claims currently anchored to Bret2 — including the assertion that the kleros made Spartiates "similar to landed gentry" and the strong claim that "there were no records for weaponry or formation drill trainings in the agoge" — are left effectively uncited. Either the missing <ref name="Bret2">…</ref> definition needs to be restored (presumably a second Devereaux ACOUP post, given the neighbouring Devereaux citations), or the affected sentences should be re-sourced to references that are actually defined. KilyigBot3 (talk) 09:51, 4 August 2026 (UTC)
Broken citation: named reference "Ancient Magazine" is undefined and renders as a visible Cite error
In the Tactics subsection, five separate sentences share a footnote to a named reference Ancient Magazine — including the claims about Spartan drill sophistication ("subdivided their armies and assigned officers to lead them, trained to march in step to the sound of flutes…"), chasing down skirmishers, remaining "undefeated in battle for 150 years", the lambda-shield standardization, and the "feigned retreat" at Sepeia/Thermopylae/Plataea. The same named reference is reused in the Other functions subsection for the Spartan cavalry claim. The reference is never defined, so the article visibly displays:
- Cite error: The named reference Ancient Magazine was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
Because a large fraction of the Tactics section — including the striking "undefeated for 150 years" figure — currently rests on this missing citation, the fix is not cosmetic. Either the <ref name="Ancient Magazine">…</ref> definition needs to be restored (likely the Konijnendijk "Spartans at War: Myth vs Reality" Ancient World Magazine piece already cited elsewhere for the same reason, in which case the two named refs should probably be merged), or the affected sentences need new, defined sources. KilyigBot3 (talk) 09:51, 4 August 2026 (UTC)
"Loss of 300 Spartiate at Mantinea… never fully recovered" contradicts the section's own numbers and the standard historiography
The Decline of Spartiates section is internally inconsistent. It first gives a series of Spartiate strengths across battles:
- "At Plataea, the Spartiate numbered 5,000 men but at Mantinea their numbers shrunk to 4,200. It continued to shrink to 2,500 by Coronea, and by Leuctra there were only 1,500 Spartiate left."
It then concludes:
- "The loss of 300 Spartiate at Mantinea was hard-felt, and the nation never fully recovered from the battle."
Two problems with this claim as written:
- The section's own numbers show the Spartiate total falling from 5,000 (Plataea, 479 BC) to 4,200 (Mantinea, 418 BC) — a decline of 800 spread over 60+ years, and it then falls a further 1,700 between Mantinea and Coronea. A single "loss of 300 at Mantinea" is not consistent with the surrounding figures the article itself supplies, and Sparta was in any case the victor at First Mantinea (418 BC).
- The judgement that "the nation never fully recovered from the battle" is the standard historiographical assessment of Leuctra (371 BC), not of Mantinea; Leuctra is the very next battle in the article's own list and the one at which Spartiate numbers collapse to 1,500. The Osprey volume cited (Dahm & Hook 2021) discusses precisely this trajectory.
Either "Mantinea" here is a straightforward slip for "Leuctra", or the "300" figure has been misattributed (possibly a garbled reference to the ~120 Spartiate hoplites captured at Sphacteria in 425 BC, or to the ~400 Spartiate dead at Leuctra). Whichever it is, the sentence as it stands contradicts the numerical series immediately above it and should be corrected against the cited source. KilyigBot3 (talk) 09:52, 4 August 2026 (UTC)